Bread Wars 1 - Depression Era Recipe vs. NYTimes No Knead

I've been trying a few different bread recipes lately, like a lot of other people out there. And I like to think about what I like and didn't about certain recipes. Now, I am pretty new to bread making, probably only in the past 5 years or so have I really gotten into it other than basic "quick bread" or "cake bread" recipes (think your banana breads or friendship breads type thing). I eventually branched out into the scary world of yeast breads. And had more than one flop. Had several of them, and thought it just wasn't something I was able to do. (I might have taken up hockey with one of my loaves that flopped.)

That was then.

Now, I have a standard one that I adore. It's the NYTimes no knead bread recipe. (AKA NYTimes recipe) It's great, it's fantastic. It takes a 12-18 hours rising time, and then, you shape it, and let it rise for 2 more hours. and then you bake it for an hour.

Which is great. Normally, we just eat the bread when it comes out of the oven, more as a snack than as part of a dinner. Because fresh from the oven bread is one of the greatest treasures of life. (Yes, I exaggerate, but truly, it is one of life's finer pleasures.)

So, to try to expand my bread making abilities, I decided to try this recipe:

Simple Depression Era Bread Recipe

(I'm just going to call it Depression Bread, because it's a heck of a lot shorter.) Now, it wasn't anything fancy. Just mix the ingredients, let it sit, punch it down, split it into two, let it rise again, and bake for 30-35 minutes.

All told, I think the bread was done in about 2.5 hours.

Now, that's a hell of a lot of time difference there. And if that's all I was judging things one, yeah, I'd be switching recipes.

In reality, they are very different types of bread. The Depression Bread is much more what I grew up calling a sandwich bread. It's good. It's filling. It's there to help things get into your mouth. The crust is there, but thin - not a bad thing some days, especially if you've got a jaw problem or have problems with your teeth. It's "golden on the top, and hollow when tapped" standard bread that would go well sopping up gravy on a dinner plate or just as well topped with butter. I might try it as a PB and J tomorrow and let you know how it is. It's a good, basic bread in a quick time (for home made bread).

To compare it with the NYTimes bread, which produces what is more akin to "artisan bread". It's got a crust that's hearty and flaky, and an open structure on the inside. The long, slow rise gives it a fuller flavor. It's a bread that you wouldn't be surprised to find at a store, or at a restaurant. This is one you experiment with and add herbs to, and garlic cloves, and try adding cheese on the top. This is the bread that you use artisan cheeses with to make an Adult Grilled Cheese. It's a Breeeeeeeeeeeeeaaad.

So, yeah, it's kinda like comparing a loaf of Sara Lee white bread with the bakery baked loaf. Both have their uses. And both are good, but they are two very different beasts.

The recipes also hold a difference. The amount of yeast used - since we're in the middle of a global pandemic and bread baking renaissance - is something to take into account. The Depression Bread uses 1.5 T of yeast, whereas the NYTimes bread uses 1/4th a tsp. The trade off is the time that you let it rise, obviously. There's also a difference of about a cup and a half of flour - 4.5 c for Depression Bread, and 3 for NYTimes recipe.

And while not a huge difference - the NYTimes makes one large loaf vs two bread pan sized loaves from the Depression Bread.


So, if you can spare the time, but are low on yeast and flour, go with the NYTime bread. If you want bread for dinner tonight, and don't want to run to the store, go with the Depression Bread.

12th Night ToA entry of a sort

Nuw Modelbuch bobbin lace pattern project Metylda of Ravenslake

This project started as a curiosity of “could I make the patterns - all of them - in Nuw Modelbuch (1571), even the ones not translated into modern patterns by Burkhard?”

I never stopped to think if I should or not, just if I could.

This has become several projects into one.

The bobbin lace portion - which is figuring out the pattern from the woodcutting, as well as making the lace. If I plan on overdoing it, which I very well may, I might make the lace patterns in different types of materials - a mix of cotton, linen, silk, or mixes. This would allow me to see how different modern materials behave, and what we can compare to portraits and extant pieces that we have. I’ve heard (but haven’t had a chance to verify for myself) that modern cotton (mercerized or crochet thread) is more like what linen might have been in period. Certainly, I’ve used modern linen thread, but it’s a lot more uneven than I would like. (And I spin enough wool. I could learn to spin flax into linen. I could also learn to grow my own flax from seed, rett it, crush it, process it, and spin it, but I think I’ve got enough on my plate trying to recreate 160 some odd bobbin lace patterns. I’m trying to not get too carried away, after all.)

The words part

It’s a pain to go “that pattern that on page 35, the third one down with the meshy type part.” So, I’m trying to see if there’s a way to index/translate/better refer to the patterns. And if there’s a method to the madness of the naming. I mean, I’ve learned that one of them is called “heart”, which oddly enough, features a pattern of hearts. (Clever.) There’s also patterns called “Andreaskruez” modernly, and “Andrezcruz” in the original text, which is St. Andrew’s Cross in English, and what that motif is since it appears in several patterns. So, not only am I trying to figure out a foreign language that I don’t speak (yet), I’m trying to translate an older version of it, written in an odd script. So, the calligraphy/script. After being frustrated trying to just translate the letters from script to modern because letters were not matching up, I contacted someone, Ian the Green, who is well known for his knowledge of inks and calligraphy and historic scripts used. I had figured, since the book was published in Germany (now Switzerland), that it would be some sort of German script, and since it was published in 1571, that would give us some more narrowing of search results. I thought it was “Frakture”. Which apparently, is a family of scripts, and not an individual one.

Ian gave the scripts I sent him a look and he said it looked to be a blend of Batarde’s curves and angles and gothic texturea precicios vele sin pedibus, and that it was interesting that some of the letters have feet and other things, and other letters don’t. “The miniscule ‘g’ is a dead giveaway that it’s Bararde,” apparently. Basically, no one writes in just one style, we all tend to blend styles. (Think modern cursive and print. Few people write in just cursive, often we switch some letters to be printed. The capital “Q” if often print, and not cursive.)

I found website (stevemorse.com) that has a generator for Frakture script, and it’s close enough that I can compare those letters to what was printed. The hardest part is f vs. s, with t and l thrown in for fun, as it’s not always clear in the script which one is which.

So, trying to tackle modernizing the titles of the patterns is a fun …. We’ll go with interesting. It’s an interesting distraction. 

The third part Creating a decent index for people to use. There are no page numbers, and patterns with the same motif are used over and over again with some minor changes (maybe?) in the titles. So, trying to create an index that lists the different patterns with a unique number (even just numbering them 1-164), which ones were transcribed by Burkhard, old name, modernish translation, as close to a modern translation into English (or at least identifying what the different motifs are), page numbers with which pattern it is on that page (so, like 18d - page 18, fourth one down). And then what examples I create, as well as the pattern I create with it.

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What I have going on today.

I’ve only started working on this project in earnest in Jan 2020, so I haven’t gotten very far.

I figured out the first piece in the Nuw Modelbuch. Set it up, got the bobbins ready to go, put it down, bobbins got tangled. So, I decided to do a new “cheap” pillow to work on, since I’ve been working on the others I have for… well, they’re begging me to take them out to practice driving. 

For the new pillow, I decided to use two layers of pink insulation. That will allow me to not poke myself as readily, and not catch pins that go through on bags. It also gives the pillow just a little more depth and a tiny more weight. Which aren’t bad. It’s still extremely lightweight and portable. After that, I got the pattern pinned down, untangled all the bobbins, and then realized that 24 bobbins is different from 24 pairs of bobbins. Apparently, a lot of other people know this and failed to clue me in. (In my defense, it was a full moon and I was all alone.)

Risking having nothing, I decided to try to chart out a new pattern that only requires 12 pairs or less (which is a total of 24 bobbins, I can learn). 

I do realize that Burkhard has already modernized some of the patterns, but for this experiment, I haven’t fully decided what to do with those 40 patterns. Part of me thinks that, if I were being smart, I would do those first, which might give me a better understanding of trickier passes and stitches in the bobbin lace patterns. The other part of me thinks I should just treat them like the other patterns, and ignore the modern takes on them, and see if what I come up with matches what Burkhard came up with, and if not, where did we differ. 

We’ll see how far I get with this. I’m hoping to update at least another 40, if not more, and to enter however many I’ve done as a sampler into the 2021 regional A&S competition. I don’t remember the sampler with different prices for the different lace designs is period, but that’s more like what I would like to be able to present. Or, a page or so on each of the lace pieces, with the woodcut, the original title, the modernized title, and the updated pattern.  I'm also curious as to how using (modern) linen thread, silk and linen, silk, and modern cotton. We'll see how far I get.

Obligatory intro post

I guess I'm showing my age as I'd rather blog than podcast.

There are something that I'd rather write about, give thought to, and edit before sharing rather than speaking off the cuff, and maybe without thought.

Hopefully, this will become a place of reviews, random learning, and more.

Not that I've been good at this in the past, but hopefully, this time will be different.

As for the name - I share my space with several cats, I feel that "may contain cat hair" should just be understood. If I bake you something, it may contain cat hair. If I give you a gift, it may contain cat hair. If I give you a hug, you can be assured that it may contain cat hair. And since this is going to be a random sort of thing, may contain cat hair seemed rather appropriate.

That said, I am hoping this space will be LGBTQ+, pagan/heathen/witchcraft, pro-feminist friendly. And since this is my space, thankfully, I get to have final say on what goes on here.

Pull up a chair, tell me your favorite drink, and I hope you enjoy your look around.